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SirMetalheadnaja, ich hab bisher schon sehr viel von ihm gehalten. Das Ensiferum-Debut und die erste Wintersun waren für mich schon überragend. Aber diese Situation scheint ihm nicht zu bekommen, er steigert sich da ja auch sichtlich rein. .
Man darf nicht das Devs-Iratvs Debut von Arthemesia vergessen.
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Plattensammlung Diskutiere nie mit Idioten. Zuerst ziehen sie dich auf ihr Niveau herunter und anschliessend schlagen sie dich mit ihrer Erfahrung.Highlights von metal-hammer.deSirMetalheadnein, war er nicht. Trotzdem hat er 4 der 12 Songs (mit-)geschrieben und die Keyboards arrangiert und eingespielt. Von seiner Stimme ganz zu schweigen. Es gab auch andere Gründe, aber jeder hört, dass Iron als erstes Album ohne Jari deutlich anders klang.
Auf „Iron“ war Jari noch dabei. „Victory Songs“ ist das erste Album ohne ihn, für mich die beste ENSIFERUM.
Die Keyboards auf „Ensiferum“ hat übrigens Henri Sorvali eingespielt (Jari hat zumindest mitarrangiert).--
"Unsere Größe ist es, daß wir all diese Champions-League-Titel mit einem konkreten Stil, einer Idee und einer Philosophie gewonnen haben. Es war nicht nur lediglich gewinnen, es ging auch um den Stil und die Art und Weise, wie wir gewonnen haben." (Carles Puyol)MooNAuf „Iron“ war Jari noch dabei. .
hmpf, stimmt ja. Auch wenn er nicht mehr zu hören ist ^^
Auf Iron singt er doch auch noch, oder?
Epidemic ReignAuf Iron singt er doch auch noch, oder?
Natürlich. Du hast beim Sir „^^“ übersehen.
Obwohl mir Jaris künstlerischer Anteil an „Iron“ durchaus größer erscheint als auf „Ensiferum“ (wenn man die Credits liest)…--
"Unsere Größe ist es, daß wir all diese Champions-League-Titel mit einem konkreten Stil, einer Idee und einer Philosophie gewonnen haben. Es war nicht nur lediglich gewinnen, es ging auch um den Stil und die Art und Weise, wie wir gewonnen haben." (Carles Puyol)Roy Black MetalDas Wintersun-Debut war grandios und wird heute noch gerne gehört. Aber dieses grandiose Debut wurde unter Bedingungen eingespielt, für die Meister Jari heute anscheinend keinen Finger mehr krumm machen will. Und mir will nicht in den Kopf, warum es plötzlich so viel mehr braucht, um gute Musik einzuspielen, wie er es 2003 (?) getan hat. Keiner verlangt das London Symphony Orchestra und die Wiederauferstehung Herbert von Karajans für das Einspielen einer weiteren Wintersun-Platte. Hinsetzen. Einspielen. Veröffentlichen. Heute muss keine Platte mehr klingen wie die erste Mayhem.
Seh ich ähnlich. Das Debüt war ein wirklich herausragendes Album.
Mit diesem ganzen „Höher-schneller-weiter-und-außerdem-viel-mehr-Bombast-und-Zuckerwatte“ haben sich alle Beteiligten böse verkalkuliert. Hinzu kam diese elendige Warterei, sowas hebt die Erwartungen unterbewusst nur noch weiter in die Höhe. Time I hab ich einmal oder zweimal gehört und war gelangweilt…also so ziemlich exakt das Gegenteil zum Debüt.
Völlig unabhängig davon, dass er sich ja ziemlich offensichtlich mit NB über den Haufen geworfen hat (oder es tun wird), war ich nach Time I sowieso der Meinung, dass da wenig bis nichts mehr kommen kann…so wie sich das entwickelt hat. Sehr sehr schade.
So wird wohl das Debüt das einzig vernünftige Album bleiben.
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- Have no fear for the devil my dear - - you know we all need the devil sometimes -
AnonymRegistriert seit: 01.01.1970
Beiträge: 0
Für mich ist Jari nur noch ein Clown, sorry. Ich hab’s letztens schon im „Time I“-Thread etwas weniger drastisch formuliert. Man mag ja von Nuclear Blast halten, was man mag, aber denen hier den Miesepeter zuzustecken, halte selbst ich für äußerst gewagt. Wintersun sind nun seit 2004 bei diesem Label unter Vertrag, und mal abgesehen von dem Debütalbum sind in den 10 Jahren drei ganze Songs rausgekommen, die zwei Intros zähle ich gar nicht mit, weil man sich sonst noch mehr schämen müsste.
Und ich hab‘ in der Freizeit auf ‚m Wacken schon mit jemandem auf FB darüber diskutiert, wobei folgender Beitrag meinerseits rauskam (hab jetzt keine Lust das nochmal nachzukauen):
„Ich finde Time I bei weitem nicht schlecht. Aber das Album hat ein riesiges Problem, welches im Grunde schon fest stand, als es angekündigt war: es ist einfach zu wenig und wirkt nach einer gewissen Zeit einfach nicht mehr bzw. größtenteils zerfahren. Da fehlt einfach was. Die Produktion ist nicht der Punkt, an dem sich das Album das Genick bricht. Ein Konzeptalbum teilt man einfach nicht. Aber da ist er auch selbst schuld, sorry. Dass NB irgendwann mal Ergebnisse bzw. monetäre Einnahmen von seinem „Arbeitnehmer“ sehen will, ist vollkommen nachvollziehbar und legitim, schließlich haben sie ihm auch genug Geld für Computer und all den Scheiss zugesteckt. Mein Interesse an Wintersun hat er jedenfalls vergrault und ich würde ihn auch nicht unterstützen, weil er sich dafür erstmal Vertrauen erarbeiten müsste. Schön, wenn er noch so viele Fans hat, aber ehrlich gesagt gibt es dutzend Ein-Mann Bands die produktiver mit weniger Mitteln sind und ihrem Genre einen deutlicheren Schritt vorwärts gemacht haben, als es der gute Herr Mäenpää mit seinem Projekt tut.“
Und zum Thema Produktion:
„Aber mal im Ernst. Er ist einer wenn nicht der einzige, der sein eigenes Studio und sonstigen Firlefanz braucht . Und dann klingt die Produktion so beschissen wie auf Time I. Das kann nicht sein ernst sein. Man mag von NB ja halten was man will, aber dass sie Ergebnisse wollen und ihm keine Extrawürste braten, verstehe ich vollkommen.“
Das „beschissen“ mag hierbei übertrieben sein, aber die Produktion ist für mich eben nix, was so viel Zeit Anspruch nimmt, wenn sie so klingt. Fertig.
„Für mich ist „Time I“ totaler Soundmatsch. Knallt natürlich schön, aber das ist eben nicht alles. Vor allem dann nicht, wenn die Orchestrierung alles andere zerdrückt. Ich war ja lange geduldig mit ihm, aber in der Zeit, die er für ein halbes Album gebraucht hat, haben Moonsorrow drei Genre-referenz Alben sowie eine geile EP geschaffen. Trotz den ach so doofen Produzenten, die Jari natürlich alle nicht braucht. Die Sache scheint einfach so, als nehme sich der feine Herr viel zu wichtig. Da kann er noch so viel gegen das böse Business wettern, letztlich ist er der Pseudo-Revoluzzer, der 10 Jahre nach dem Debüt ganze ‚5‘ „fertige“ Songs präsentiert hat. Das können sich Genregrössen rausnehmen, aber gewiss kein kleines Licht wie er. Und aufgrund der „Umstände“ erst recht nicht.“
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AnonymRegistriert seit: 01.01.1970
Beiträge: 0
Ich frage mich wie der sich so über Wasser hält.
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neues Update von Facebook.
Ok, klingt ein wenig mehr verständlich, zumindest warum er unbedingt ein Studio haben möchte. Ändert trotzdem nix an der Situation. Hoffnungen machen eigentlich nur seine momentanen Verhandlungen mit Nuclear Blast. Vielleicht finden sie ja tatsächlich eine Lösung, die beiden Seiten gerecht wird.
CLEARING FEW THINGS ABOUT MY LAST “REALITY UPDATE”
I feel like I need to explain the situation more clearly as some people seem to be a bit confused. So let´s get more into the details…
Let´s get one thing clear first, I don´t live in a fantasy world. You might say I´m a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to album production. Fine, I´ll give you that. But I do make compromises, lots of them. TIME I was all a huge compromise. The melody guitars are all old modelling amps (not the new Axe-FXs and whatnots which sound pretty decent actually). There simply was not enough budget to record them properly in a professional studio, so they sound pretty horrible and are very hard mix and fit in with the rest of the instruments. The vocals were all recorded in various rehearsal places just with my laptop (the reason why it took so long to record them and also because of the hundreds of vocal tracks I needed to record for these albums). They are certainly not the best quality vocal recordings. Again, another compromise for not having enough budget for a 3rd party professional studio. I also wanted some time to practise my vocals while recording, which I´ve never really done before, but you can hear the improvement. Also I do some of the vocal arrangement work and experiment with different things while recording, this would be impossible in a 3rd party studio. The rhythm guitars were actually recorded in a 3rd party studio, but I didn´t have enough time to craft the sound exactly like I want it. Rhythm guitar is the thing I´m the most perfectionist and passionate about. There´s only a handful of rhythm guitar sounds I like from the millions of heavy metal records out there, so you can imagine how hard it is for me to be able to produce the guitar sound of my dreams in few days in a 3rd party studio. Impossible. And to fit it in with hundreds of orchestration & synth instruments, to not muddy the bass, to be able to scoop the mids so the whole mix doesn’t sound like a kitchen radio (I don´t like mids in metal guitars plus the orchestra instruments already eat a lot of the mids space), but still keep the upper mids smooth and not harsh, to not mask the drum overheads, but still having enough modern highs and upper mids attack to have it cut through the mix. This is almost a mission impossible, but I know I could do it in my own time in my own studio… So the time ran out from the studio´s “taximeter” and I was left with unsatisfying guitar sound and very hard to fit in the mix (still had to pay the studio bill though). I was very unhappy about this, but still released the album! The orchestrations were made with just one computer which forced me to use time consuming workarounds and was very stressful. I won´t even get into the technical problems I´ve had to deal with over the years. It took 3 years of sweat and tears to make the orchestrations the way I had to do them. This was the hardest task and it nearly burned me out. Never again this way! I would need a computer farm to do the all the orchestrations in realtime without slow workarounds.
I´ve mixed the albums in my apartment and you ask why it takes so long to mix? Well, because my room is not a professional studio ment for mixing. There´s also always some noise issues inside and outside the building, I´ve had even some scary hearing problems due to this for having to raise the volume and having to mix too loud. Never again! There´s also insane amount of tracks to mix (which is very difficult), but my computer is having hard a time handling them well. Very unstable and slow. But the main thing why the mixing takes so long is because the recorded sounds are pretty crappy due to lack of resources to record them properly. So it´s very hard to „polish a turd“, if not impossible. Good sounds would mix themselves! And I won´t even get into other health problems I´ve had due to stress which has slowed the mixing process too (not mental problems, although maybe I´m a bit crazy :P). So again, I simply can´t afford a 3rd party studios to mix in or to record. Not even close. Nuclear Blast gave us just enough budget for only to record the drums, bass and rhythm guitars in 3rd party studio, that´s it. Which all turn out unsatisfying due to lack of time to tweak the sounds right for massive projects like the TIME albums are. That´s why I´ve been struggling with the mixing. All the rest of the instuments, vocals, orchestrations, melody guitars etc… was left up to me to record on my own however possible and getting quality recordings in a „DIY bedroom studio scenario“ is not easy. Sure they gave us few additional advances, ´cause we begged them for faster computers and better gear (and all that money has been paid back already), but still not nearly enough for a task like this. The rest have been basically financed by yours truly with touring, merchandise and just simply sacrificing my own time doing lot of workarounds and recording in rehearsal places or where ever I could due to the lack of funding, but I had to make these albums a reality no matter what! But my point is, as you can see, I do make lots of compromises. TIME I is far from perfect, but still released the album! Would a perfectionist do that?
I certainly can make music renting a 3rd party studio for one month and release an album, as I have already proven that many times in the past. But I won´t do that again, that is my decision. I´ve never been happy with those albums and the results I get from 3rd party studios. Waste of money. There simply isn´t enough time (with our budgets) to craft the sounds the way I want them in unfamiliar space with unfamiliar gear, monitors and under the stress of the “studio taximeter“ running. It´s usually just, let´s throw a mic there and wish for the best! “We´ll fix it in the mix… maybe!”. Making music makes me happy. The feeling you get when you first get a new idea, a riff, a melody, a vision of the song is a great feeling and you just want to make that vision come out from the speakers exactly like you hear it in your head. Releasing music that doesn’t represent that vision and is compromised makes me unhappy. Why continue to do something that makes you unhappy? Those past albums were like demos to me and nothing like the TIME albums or the future material are in their complexity. I just want to get the production right for these albums! I know some people don’t care about the production quality that much, but I do. I wouldn´t be able to ever do these albums in 30, 60 or 90 days in a 3rd party studio “like all the other bands do it”. Sorry, but I´m just not that skilled of a human being! I would need to rent a 3rd party studio for a year or two or even three years depending on the project and live there 24/7. But obviously who can afford that? You could invest and build your own studio with that money and make many albums until you die. The main thing that people need to understand is that the TIME albums and my future material are so much more complex to make than my previous albums were and I just can´t continue to do them like I´ve been forced to do them for the past 10 years. I think we´ve all established by now that this isn´t working. You have to also remember, I do these albums basically alone. Produce, record, engineer, sing, play, mix, master, write all the music & lyrics… Who else does that? Anyone in Finland? Anyone in the world? Well maybe Devin Townsend, but he´s fucking Devin Townsend! I´m just nobody from Konala, Helsinki.
During these years I´ve been already acquiring studio gear and started doing most of the stuff myself and I love it! I´ve gotta pretty good DAW and monitor setup, so basically I got most of the studio gear already. But there´s still one major thing that is missing and that is the studio space. A place to work without interruptions, where I can crank up guitar amps 24/7, 365 days a year without the neighbors calling the cops, to record and practise my singing everyday, to record drums and so on… Having everything always set up ready to record and to mix night or day in a good mixing room would speed up the whole process immensely. It would be also great for the whole band, ´cause we´d have our own rehearsal room for the first time, sort of “Wintersun headquarters”. This would really free us to make albums much faster with better quality and able us to tour more often, which then would open the possibilities financially to other things like upgrading our live shows, doing ten minute music videos for our long songs, a live DVD maybe even with a real orchestra…
It is a fact that without Nuclear Blast I couldn´t have gotten where I am today and I’m certainly grateful of that, but they have really made the most money of Wintersun. What have I made? Well I´ve gotten some better equipments to do my job which is nice, but I´m still struggling and I´m missing the main pieze of the puzzle, the actual „work place”, which is a huge roadblock to continue forwards. I´m in a dead end. All my money has always gone straight to the album productions. I don´t go on vacations, I don´t have a car or anything fancy, which I´m totally fine with! I work and do these albums basically for free and that would be actually fine with me, if I could do my work at least in good conditions. I´ve been struggling and I´ve sacrificed everything for over 10 years and gotten pretty much nothing out of it, except the love and support of the fans, which I appreciate very much!
But to continue to make more albums, I need my own studio. I´ve had enough making albums in rehearsal places and in a bedroom studios, it just doesn´t work. Enough is enough. I´ve reached the breaking point. I don´t owe Nuclear Blast or anyone anything. I don´t have to make or release albums. I don´t have to release TIME II, if I´m not happy with it. I can make music (demos) just for myself for fun and just show them to my closest friends. Or I can do something else, for example teaching like Kai and Teemu… doing anything else I would actually earn some money. I will continue to always make music like I did before any record deals, but whether I will release the music depends totally whether I can record and mix it properly. I´ve made piece with myself that if I won´t be able to ever release another album again and I have to take my songs to the grave, that is ok with me, but I do not wish it. Nuclear Blast and everyone around me has made profits of Wintersun and all my debts are paid. So no harm done. Where to go from here? The future is unknow.
I must point out that our manager is a really good guy. Always has our best interest at heart, he actually gave me a big personal loan to finish TIME I. I couldn´t have done it without him! He actually renegotiated a better Nuclear Blast deal for me after the TIME I release. I´m actually ok with the new deal. Except for the fact that I can´t make albums, because they won´t fund them enough for me to actually be able to make them and at the same time they are denying me doing a Wintersun crowd funding which probably would finance the studio. So they are really holding us hostage. Our manager actually renounced himself from the crowd funding and won´t have any part in it unless I want his help. He wants to see Wintersun succeed. The problem is still the same though, without enough funding there won´t be Wintersun albums. And I´m pretty sure I would not be able to gather enough finances on my own with just “Jari Mäenpää´s studio crowd funding” without any meaningful perk like TIME II high quality album download for example. It would have to be a big Wintersun campaign with a team of people helping me to realise this dream. But I will try to figure something out, I´m not giving up!
TIME II is now in a good place mixwise. I´m pretty happy with the drums, bass & the orchestrations. The whole thing is sounding so much more powerful and clear than TIME I. Really proud of what I´ve been able to achieve with these “not so perfect“ recordings and with the intense orchestra layers. It´s so difficult to mix stuff like this, especially with my mixing conditions. But I won´t ruin the hard work I´ve done so far by throwing a crappy guitar sound on top ruining the whole mix. That´s one compromise I won´t make anymore. And I won´t be spending anymore money for 3rd party studios either. I will save and invest every penny for my own studio. Actually for those who complained not hearing the guitars enough on TIME I, the guitars were left purposely little bit back in the mix, because they were so crappy. Or those who critized the production otherwise, now you know the reason why it wasn´t top notch quality. No money = demo quality. And for those who doubted me having written already 5 albums worth of new material, I´ve written actually more. That was just a conservative estimate.
Bottom line, if people want me to make music and release Wintersun albums, I need enough funding for my personal studio where I can craft my music, record and produce my sounds in piece. It is as simple as that. I can´t make this complex music any other way anymore. I am just one man with limited resources and limited skills. I can´t magically pull albums from thin air. Maybe other bands can do their albums “the usual way” renting a 3rd party studio for one month and are happy with the results, I certainly respect that! I´ve been there, done that. I know that many metal bands have all got their own hardships and I am not certainly underrating anyone´s situation. But every situation is unique and mine certainly is. I´ve seen some comments saying that “You don´t deserve your own studio, because other bands don´t get to have their own studio either and you should just do your music like everyone else does it!”. Would it be somehow bad for the other bands if I would build my own studio? Would it somehow hurt the other bands, if I could make more Wintersun albums in my own way? Or are these comments just based on jealousy or something? “What makes you so special to get your own studio?” Nothing and maybe I don´t deserve it, but that is for the fans & financiers to decide and I know there´s lots of dedicated fans that want to support us! It really isn´t about who deserves what. I´m just saying what I can and can´t do. I have my own way of doing things. Sorry, if my previous update sounded like whining or somehow entitled for some of you, it wasn’t ment to be. I am just trying to illustrate the difficult situation I´m in. I definitely understand the realities of life. The crowd funding was actually suggested and brought to my attention by the fans. In fact people have been wanting donate to us since the debut album, but we don’t feel very good about it. We always would like to give something back. That’s why we make merchandise for example. I admit that I´m a little bit frustrated with the situation, but I´m fine with whatever outcome. But if someone finds it offensive that I´m looking for funding for my studio project and for the Wintersun albums, then they got some personal problems. Most of the comments have been really encouraging, supportive and positive though and I appreciate that!
Currently I´m negotiating with Nuclear Blast and our manager how we could make this work for all parties… We´ll see if we can work this out.
I certainly hope that we´ll find a solution, so we can release more Wintersun albums and share them with the world. It is my dream and passion to make music and it makes me happy to see that so many people care about Wintersun. I´m very grateful!!! All your supportive posts have given me lot of hope and I´m certainly not quitting the fight!
Thank you and thanks for listening!
Jari
p.s. Everyone enjoying their popcorn?
AnonymRegistriert seit: 01.01.1970
Beiträge: 0
Das les‘ ich mir jetzt nicht durch, nach ’nem Absatz war Sense. Wenn er mal so viel Zeit in seine Musik stecken würde, wie er Zeit in’s Romane-Schreiben steckt. Mehr als Kompromisse werden bei der NB-Sache glaube ich sowieso nicht mehr rauskommen, täusche mich aber gerne.
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PainajainenMehr als Kompromisse werden bei der NB-Sache glaube ich sowieso nicht mehr rauskommen
indirekt sagt er das ja auch.
Er meint halt, dass er auch die vielen negativen Kommentare und das Unverständnis registriert und möchte sich da ein Stück weit rechtfertigen.Wenn er jetzt schon seinen schlagzeuger verloren hat^^
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John Wayne"Ich traue keinem Mann, der keinen Alkohol trinkt"
ebay kaufen! amon amarth,kreator,atrocity,slayer,anthrax,dimmu borgir [COLOR=#ff0000]über land und unter wasser habe ich mein glück gesucht[/COLOR]
AnonymRegistriert seit: 01.01.1970
Beiträge: 0
Er braucht ihn ja momentan eh nicht, also was solls 🙂
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verloren hat er ihn zum glück nicht 😉
mag mir wintersun ohne kai hahto nicht vorstellen^^--
Swords in their hands they killed each and every man Who dared to invade their sacred land Victory Songs are rising in the night Telling all of their undying strength and mightKai Hahto von Rotten Sound und Swallow The Sun?
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